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Design Dilemma
rocknramble

Is this how subway tile is supposed to be installed?

rocknramble
8 years ago
My wife and I are having our two bathrooms redone and decided on subway tile for both bath and shower. We stopped by the house today to see how things we're going and saw the subway tiles laid, but not grouted. It is our first time ever doing a remodel and are learning as we go. After seeing the subway tile today we felt completely defeated and frustrated. Can anyone tell me if this is how subway tiles are supposed to look prior to grouting? Will it look better when it is grouted and calked? We just feel like we might be getting ripped off here and the job is bad. Is this worthy of a redo?
Featured Answer
  • s c
    8 years ago
    the short answer is no, definitely not. grout won't fix a poor tile install, it will exaggerate any poor cuts and bad layout decisions like in your photos. was this done by a "handyman" or a professional tile setter?

    Comments (19)

    • rocknramble
      Original Author
      8 years ago
      Thanks! I don't know the actual guy who installed it, we just talk to the general contractor and it is his business. He claims to stand by his work, but he was telling us that grout could fix the disparity in the tiles. He even took out a caulk gun and started filling in cracks? Didn't seem to make it look any better. I don't know the first thing about this stuff, but do feel like it looks pretty bad. I can't afford to pay any more money. Is it reasonable to have him redo the whole thing? I mean lines are not even. All different widths, the tiles are not flush, and some gaps are huge. I guess I thought subway tile would be easy and clean looking. Not all jagged and uneven. Thanks for your help!
    • smit2380
      8 years ago

      It is reasonable to request that it be redone (ideally, by a more professional tile setter).

    • s c
      8 years ago
      you're absolutely right in your assumptions. I'm not sure why he would be caulking before grout, or even after in most applications.
      from the photos it doesn't look like a professional install at all. I would certainly recommend that you ask him to verify his installers qualifications and whether he's capable of performing the work, if not have him take it out and refund your money so you can hire a professional tile setter. grout is not water proof, with gaps like that you will get leaks. And that's in addition to the fact that he didn't seem to do any layout to make sure he didn't have tiny pieces all over the place.
      whoever your contractor hired did an excellent job of demonstrating how not to install wall tiles. it's so disappointing to see contractors who don't care about the quality of their work, it gives us all a bad name.
    • rocknramble
      Original Author
      8 years ago
      Thank you so much for your time and comments. You really have helped us. We were starting to feel like we just had to settle for this because we don't know the industry. Thanks again!
    • rocknramble
      Original Author
      8 years ago
      Sorry, one last thing. Is it too much to ask to expect all the lines and depth of the tiles to be the same? I guess I expected all the grout lines everywhere to be the same width? And subway tiles to be very close to each other. Also, all the tiles should lay flat against the wall at the same depth correct? They redid all the bath and shower and put all new drywall, so it should all be even. I don't understand why some bulge out, unless he just put too much glue behind some tiles?

      Thanks again for your time.
    • Alexandra
      8 years ago
      All the tile is supposed to be measured and planned appropriately to avoid these weird little cuts as you show in your pictures. In addition, all the tile is supposed to be leveled, meaning it should be flat and create as flat of a surface as possible. This was done poorly. I would ask him to rip out this bad work, have him pay for the tile needed to retile, and require him that a qualified tiler does the job.
    • s c
      8 years ago
      I'm hearing a few things, drywall and glue... if this is a shower area tile should not be installed over drywall. it should be installed over a proper tile base; my tile guy uses durock and seals the joints with mesh tape to prevent cracks, then skims the entire surface with a material similar to thinset (this is referred to as a mud job) to smoothe out any imperfections in the wall. Then he applies a brush on waterproof membrane.
      No drywall, sheetrock or gypboard in wet locations.
      what exactly do you mean by glue? if he's setting wall tile in a wet area he should have used thinset, a material similar to mortar or cement.

      To answer your questions, yes you have every reason to expect that the installer would have done layout and snapped chalk lines or used a laser to keep all the courses on a consistently level line. there should be no tiles protruding past the face of other tiles either. it sounds like he back buttered each tile and slapped it on with little regard as to the overall aesthetics of the project.

      you should expect straight, consistent grout lines and flat, coplanar tile faces
    • Brandi Nash Hicks
      8 years ago
      If he has anything to say when you ask him to redo it properly, just show him this thread and he will see that it is not just you being picky, you deserve proper instillation
    • PRO
      GN Builders L.L.C
      8 years ago
      last modified: 8 years ago

      This is definitely substandard tile work,i.e uneven spacing,bad cuts, wrong cutting tools used,etc.

      There is a huge difference between working with subway tile and regular tile. You have to have experience, you have to be accurate, patient, etc, because the tile is narrow and there is too many visible seams in close proximity.

      Most subway tiles have built in spacers, so when installed you have a consistent 1/16" spacing all around. After the first row is laid out, you're good to go and you can just slap them up and as long as you making sure the tile is being installed level, flat and even and the backside/sides of each tile are touching, installer will maintain the consistency throughout the entire installation. You have to do that especially with subway tiles because if something gets misaligned, under/overcut, etc it will be very noticeable. True, grout will hide some imperfections but on a very small scale and the location of such imperfections should be in the less noticeable area.

      You have every right to raise your concerns and have this installation rectified. He shouldn't give you a hard time and he should fix this because that is his reputation on the line.

      I don't know how the rest of the job looks, but what you show in the pictures, some tiles should be removed and replaced and make sure the new tile is installed flat and level and have straight and more accurate cuts, that will get you closer to where you want to be, and also they should remove excess glue build up in between the seams in some areas, so the grout can be fully embedded into the seam.

      Best of luck.

    • PRO
      Tiles of Pompano
      8 years ago

      If one of our installers ever produced work like that, we would never recommend them for an install ever again. Have them replace immediately.

    • PRO
      Cawood Architecture, PLLC
      8 years ago

      Professionally, I would reject the work. It was also poorly planned, with the niches not sized our located to course with the tiles with a minimum of cuts, and there are awkward cuts that probably took longer to deal with than doing properly spaced. You run the risk of his tilesetter walking off the project, but you may be better served in the long run, since the finish work is sub standard, then the rough work is probably worse.

      For professional standards, you can look at the Tile Council of North America's recommendations-if you go to Laticrete's website they also have the standards free as a pdf.

    • suzyq53
      8 years ago

      Looks pretty bad. The worst part is the inset boxes where the tile doesn't line up with the surrounding walls. It will look better on the walls with white grout, but still not up to par. When I plan a job like this I measure the walls and select a tile size that works best with the dimensions to avoid all the weird cuts. Your stagger pattern makes it all look worse. If you had a decent tiler they could have shimmed it out and installed it straight for a cleaner more modern look.

      At this point, if you can't get them to replace the whole thing, I would at least have them remove all the tile from the inset areas and use a smaller penny mosaic tile there so the grout lines don't have to match up. Also, they can install trim pieces around the insets.

      Here are some photos to give you ideas.

      Good luck. Sorry you got a bad result and hope it get fixed to your satisfaction.


      Prestwick Lane · More Info
      See how the tile in the inset lines up with the rest.


      Transitional Master Bath · More Info
      Here they use an accent tile for the insets. You could just do it in the boxes.


      Flooring, bathroom and kitchen remodeling · More Info
      See how the inset in surrounded by a trim piece to give it a finished look.


      From Mid Century to Contemporary Master Bathroom · More Info
      Different tile in the inset. Yours should go on the sides of the box as well.

    • Giovanna
      8 years ago
      Oh my! I'm not a professional but I've lived thru enough renos to recognize a bad tiling job! Get him to re-tile using a REAL tiler.
    • pdk920
      8 years ago

      I just had three walls of a claw-foot tub enclosure (1930 house) done in white subway tile. It looks a thousand times better than what you show here. You shouldn't have to settle for this amateur job. Good luck!

    • rocknramble
      Original Author
      8 years ago
      Thanks, everyone, for all of your comments. It's wonderful to find such amazing support and advice from this online community. We definitely feel more empowered to assert our opinions and ask for a redo/repair. We have already expressed to our contractor that this is unacceptable work, and that it needs to be remedied. He agreed, but we will see to what degree when we meet on Monday.

      I think what's most frustrating is that when we pointed out these flaws initially, our contractor brushed it off as if they were small imperfections that could be easily resolved with some grout and caulk. This worries us in regard to his level of acceptable quality workmanship. We still have hardwood floors that he is going to install, and we are wondering if this kind of mentality will be applied to that process, as well.

      We'll keep everyone posted! Hopefully, things don't turn ugly, and our contractor does what he needs to do to uphold his reputation. He touts that he's been in the business for over two decades because he does good work and will do what it takes to make things right.

      Just another question - any ideas how thick the spacing should be between the bathtub and tiling or between a kitchen countertop and backsplash? I know that when surface planes change in direction, they are supposed to be caulked at the joint. I'm looking at our backsplash install in the kitchen, and the tiles have been set right on top of the countertops - not sure how any caulk could be applied in that spacing. Is this normal?

      Thanks again, everyone!
    • PRO
      GN Builders L.L.C
      8 years ago
      last modified: 8 years ago

      For interior installation is not more than a 1/4" and never less than 1/8" spacing.

    • suzyq53
      8 years ago

      Yes they usually set the counter tops and then the backsplash goes on top.

    • Tammy Lawhorn
      8 years ago
      This is awful!! I wouldn't accept this and I would make sure he gets another installer the second time around. If he refuses then get a new contractor!!
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