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Buying and Selling HomesDesign DilemmaKitchens
myrealnameismama_goose

Would you rather have a dishwasher or a drawer base?

mama goose_gw zn6OH
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago

My late mother owned a rental, which I am trying to get ready to sell. It's a typical three bedroom brick ranch, but has never had a DW. I have the space to extend the kitchen wall 6" (as a pony wall), to put a DW bay beside the sink, but the DW space will replace an 18" drawer base--the only drawer base in the kitchen. There is no space for other cabinets, and no budget, even if there was space. We've had to replace the hall bathroom from the subfloor out--the former tenants knocked a hole in the bath tub, covered the hole with duct tape, and continued to use the tub. With a couple of small adjustments, I can re-use the 18" drawer base in the full bathroom.

There is a 30" door cabinet (1 drawer above each door) between the range and fridge, a 36" corner susan, and a 42" sink cabinet. Upper cabinets correspond to bases. I will not be including the DW, but will have the expense of replacing the laminate countertops, running electrical for the outlet, and converting sink plumbing. Construction of the wall extension, DW return panel (painted to match cabinets), electrical, and plumbing will be DIY by family members in the construction trades. I have some materials left from other projects, including birch plywood, so those costs should be minimal. The current cabinets and laminate are in OK condition, but new entry-level laminate has been estimated at ap. $550. Flooring is being replaced anyway, and walls repainted, so that's not an issue.

If you were looking for a starter home (or a retirement home), would you prefer the DW or the drawer base? Would the added attraction of the space for a DW be enough of a selling point to offset the costs?

Thank you.

Featured Answer
  • PRO
    The Kitchen Place
    5 years ago

    I would never buy a house without a dishwasher or an easy potential to add a dishwasher, unless I planned to remodel.

    Comments (61)

    • PRO
      Sina Sadeddin Architectural Design
      5 years ago

      Absolutely a dishwasher. Buyers probably won't notice the lack of storage until after they've moved in but they will notice the lack of DW the moment they open up the listing.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Sina Sadeddin Architectural Design
    • artemis_ma
      5 years ago

      While I don't mind doing dishes by hand, the fact that a real DW is there is a true selling point.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked artemis_ma

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    • Chessie
      5 years ago

      I’d never go without a dishwasher.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Chessie
    • Nidnay
      5 years ago

      Dishwasher


      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Nidnay
    • latifolia
      5 years ago

      Is this home in a low-cost or middle income area? Your description of the kitchen makes it sound like a candidate for a gut renovation. If so, then leave it as is and lower your price accordingly. I wouldn’t want an 18” dishwasher. Putting an old kitchen cabinet in a bathroom does not sound like an upgrade. Sell this house as a fixer and move on.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked latifolia
    • Mrs Pete
      5 years ago

      Absolutely, without question, I would want a dishwasher. Even if the kitchen were short on storage, I'd want a dishwasher. You can always put a china cabinet just outside the kitchen, but a dishwasher is a modern-day necessity.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Mrs Pete
    • DrB477
      5 years ago

      110% DW

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked DrB477
    • mama goose_gw zn6OH
      Original Author
      5 years ago
      last modified: 5 years ago

      Thank you all for your responses. More info--the sink is on a wall without a window. The cabinets that are there are staying, and we will not be replacing any of them. If adding the space for the DW, I would add 6", so a standard DW would fit.

      The leaks from the tub (who knows how long they used it like that) also affected the kitchen subfloor that adjoins the bathroom wall, so flooring is being replaced, and I need to decide about the DW before we start the flooring installation.

      Alternately, we can pull the 18" cabinet, extend the wall, run the electrical, and add the necessary plumbing, then replace the cabinet. I could ask the realtor to point out how easy it would be to add a DW, and remind the buyers that they could choose their own countertop, but seeing is believing. I'm not sure that we would net that much more on the selling price, but I'm hoping that the house will sell quicker.

      The realtor (an old friend since 7th grade) suggested putting in an appliance package, but that's not going to happen. It's generally customary to bring your own appliances when buying (or even renting) in this area. The house is in a nice neighborhood, lower middle income, no one will expect granite in a 3br ranch. Due to his advice, we also had a new gas furnace and AC installed, converted from electric baseboard heat--another reason the budget is tight.

      The house next door, on a slightly smaller lot, just sold for $50,000 above asking price (bidding war), but although it started as the mirror image to the one we own, it's had the garage converted to a family room/DR, a master BR/bath addition, and a carport and detached storage shed to make up for the lost garage space. It has a 6' tall privacy fence, and a deck off the kitchen, where our house has a small patio and chain link fence. I think the new neighbors paid too much, but maybe they don't like to lose.

    • PRO
      Patricia Colwell Consulting
      5 years ago

      IMO if the kitchen is clean and no visible damage I would leave it alone I would bet that this will be a tear out when someone new buys the house and save your money you won’t get it back at sale time

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Patricia Colwell Consulting
    • maddielee
      5 years ago

      if you are saying there will be no drawer available at all I'd keep the kitchen as is and sell it that way. Let the new owners do their own reno. Where do people put flatwear without a drawer?

    • mama goose_gw zn6OH
      Original Author
      5 years ago

      House has been cleaned, will have all new flooring and paint. For a young couple with a child, or two, I doubt they would replace the cabinets and countertop right away, but an older couple who might be downsizing, with more expendable income, would probably gut the kitchen, and possibly convert the laundry/PR combo to a master bath. If I had more time and money, that would be my choice.

    • palimpsest
      5 years ago

      I don't know what your area is like but my Realtor friends tell me local Millennials and younger won't even look at a rental apartment larger than a studio without a DW.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked palimpsest
    • mama goose_gw zn6OH
      Original Author
      5 years ago
      last modified: 5 years ago

      I think that's true. I was raised in a home with no DW (except three girls), but my children, who have always had access to a DW, would notice the absence of one immediately. Well, the youngest doesn't have one, but she's m/l off the grid, in a converted pole barn, and she and her husband are not what I think of as typical Millennials.

    • sherri1058
      5 years ago

      I would prefer a dishwasher and agree with others that say that the lack of DW would be noticed quicker than the lack of drawers.

      I also agree with others that say they would prefer the kitchen as is, so that I can renovate it as I choose, but having said that, there was a time in my life that I just wanted move in ready.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked sherri1058
    • zmith
      5 years ago

      The lack of a DW wouldn't bother me nearly as much as a poorly remodeled kitchen would. Not saying you're doing a poor job fixing up the house to sell, Mamagoose. :)

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked zmith
    • Judy Mishkin
      5 years ago

      my son and dinl are millennials but when faced with what they could afford within a reasonable commute to manhattan, they wash dishes. everyone does the math differently. they don't all have money to burn.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Judy Mishkin
    • mama goose_gw zn6OH
      Original Author
      5 years ago

      Other than the DW, there won't be any other remodeling (by me), and if the new owners decide to replace the cabinets and countertop, they'd already have the utilities ready for the DW, in the only space it could go. The current layout is efficient, so without an addition, I can't see it changing much, except they could change out the huge sink cabinet for a 27" sink base, and a 15" drawer base or trash pullout, as hebflavor suggested.


    • PRO
      NIELSEN DYE DESIGN, INC.
      5 years ago

      Definitely add the DW! Your resale will be higher with a DW and it will add to your overall use of the kitchen.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked NIELSEN DYE DESIGN, INC.
    • apple_pie_order
      5 years ago

      A kitchen with exactly one drawer and a dishwasher is not usable. A kitchen with a drawer bank and no dishwasher is usable.


      Is replacing the 30" base cabinet with a 30" bank of drawers possible?

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked apple_pie_order
    • sheloveslayouts
      5 years ago

      mama - I doubt the sale of this house will hinge on whether it has a dishwasher or not. I'm thinking of my own grandmothers tiny kitchen with no dishwasher and a sink facing a wall. I'd do what requires the least time and money from you.


      I have friends who I think qualify as millennial (32ish?) and they have a small home here in portland with no built in dw and they just got a portable dw. I don't recall this being a big deal to them.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked sheloveslayouts
    • mama goose_gw zn6OH
      Original Author
      5 years ago

      I really don't want to start replacing cabinets. There are two drawers--one over each door in the 30" base, so they could hold flatware and utensils.


      I could possibly extend the pony wall 24", although that would make it look more like a short peninsula, and would add to the cost of the countertop. However, I could keep the 18" drawer base, and there would be no need for a return panel for the DW. I have a large cardboard box that I can use to mock up the longer wall, to make sure that it doesn't close off the kitchen too much.

    • sherri1058
      5 years ago

      mama goose, have you considered that you're asking the question in the wrong forum? After all, people here are passionate about their kitchens, and I've heard that not everyone is.

      Okay, forget that I said that..... I'll just go finish my glass of wine.....

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked sherri1058
    • Joe
      5 years ago

      I'm single, My kitchen is tiny. I only have 2 drawers in my kitchen, cook dinner every night and manage just fine with significantly less drawer space than typical. I have a sideboard for serving utensils and the like, it's just fine.

      Add the dishwasher. More will notice it's missing than the drawers.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Joe
    • summersrhythm_z6a
      5 years ago

      Dishwasher.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked summersrhythm_z6a
    • gyr_falcon
      5 years ago

      Have you considered an under sink dishwasher?

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked gyr_falcon
    • sheloveslayouts
      5 years ago

      Agree with sherri - I think surveying the kitchen forum is going to skew your results. This question would probably best for the buying selling forum only. My realtor always says, "declutter, clean, repair, repeat." Not new countertop, plumbing, electrical, and extending a pony wall.


      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked sheloveslayouts
    • PRO
      G&F Home Service
      5 years ago
      Dishwasher
      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked G&F Home Service
    • mama goose_gw zn6OH
      Original Author
      5 years ago

      Thank you, to everyone who has responded. I considered posting only in the Buying and Selling forum, but I wanted responses from a wider demographic, hence the Design Dilemma crosspost. I'd like to include the DW, so maybe I added the Kitchens forum to bolster my position. ;)



    • artistsharonva
      5 years ago

      I highly recommend a dishwasher.


      I'm license real estate agent who specializes in rentals acquisitions.


      When my investor clients buy homes without a dishwasher, it's a priority to put 1 in, because tenants want a dishwasher. Don't skimp on this if you want to charge reasonable rent.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked artistsharonva
    • Suzieque
      5 years ago

      I don't even know what a drawer base is, but there's no way I'd not have a dishwasher.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Suzieque
    • Becky
      5 years ago

      I don't think entry level buyers will expect drawer base cabinets, but they will expect a DW. It sounds like you have other base cabinets with a single drawer over doors, which is completely fine.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Becky
    • sheloveslayouts
      5 years ago

      Oh!!! if you WANT to do it, Mama, you should totally do it!

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked sheloveslayouts
    • cpaul1
      5 years ago

      You need to have a dishwasher.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked cpaul1
    • PRO
      Renov8or
      5 years ago

      DW. I had this challenge in a small NYC apartment once. I lived without any silverware drawer so that I could have an 18" dishwasher, and it worked out fine. At least you do have one drawer in the 30" base cabinet for silverware/utensils.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Renov8or
    • raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
      5 years ago

      I would put in as little time & trouble and expense as possible. You will already have new floors, a new tub, and wasn't there a 3rd item? Fresh paint? I would leave the kitchen as is, not replace the counter (unless it is destroyed also) and see what happens. Get some cheap cute window coverings, go to an estate sale and pick up some vintage canisters or such for the counter.

      IF the area is on the upswing, if even though they are "starter" homes they are being upgraded as new owners move in and get settled (your agent should have some insight into this -- it is what is happening in my neighborhood) then it might be worth it to do the reno to try to sell for a higher price because I think those buyers will want a dishwasher. What I am seeing here, even in homes that haven't been touched for a few decades, they are selling quickly and for ever increasing prices. But if the buyer audience is likely to be in a slightly lower economic strata that won't have the means to upgrade, or the means to pay a higher price, it seems to be a wash.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
    • Lyndee Lee
      5 years ago
      If this is an area where all adults in a house would typically be working long hours or commuting to afford the house, then having a DW is likely not something the new owners could easily add. They will be too busy to consider adding one so a kitchen without DW might be a problem. In my area with affordable housing and smaller paychecks, dishwasher is not a deal breaker in a small, older home.
      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Lyndee Lee
    • Jillius
      5 years ago

      I'm of the age you'd be appealing to with a starter home (32). Not having a dishwasher was considered a MASSIVE drawback to a rental when my friends and I were in our twenties. It'd have to have QUITE a lot going for it to make up for that lack.


      Now that we are in our thirties and actually buying property, I'm not sure it'd even occur to us that a home would not have a dishwasher.


      I also agree with everybody else that non-kitchen-savvy people wouldn't necessarily notice storage issues but would absolutely notice the lack of a dishwasher.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Jillius
    • THOR, Son of ODIN
      5 years ago
      last modified: 5 years ago

      You can store dishes in a dishwasher,
      but it is a bad idea to wash dishes in a cupboard.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked THOR, Son of ODIN
    • apple_pie_order
      5 years ago

      What was the decision?

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked apple_pie_order
    • Judy Mishkin
      5 years ago

      i just spent my weekend with the son who doesnt have a dishwasher. put the dishwasher in and save someone from their poor choice. : )

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Judy Mishkin
    • Buehl
      5 years ago
      last modified: 5 years ago

      To recap, Mama Goose's goal: Sell the house as quickly as possible (not rent it out - it used to be a rental) [But, not to spend the money on a full remodel, etc.]

      "...space to extend the kitchen wall 6"...to put a DW bay beside the sink..."

      "...There is a 30" door cabinet (1 drawer above each door)..."

      "...I will not be including the DW..."

      "...expense of replacing the laminate countertops, running electrical for the outlet, and converting sink plumbing. ..."

      "...Construction of the wall extension, DW return panel (painted to match cabinets), electrical, and plumbing will be DIY by family members in the construction trades. ..."

      "...Flooring is being replaced...so that's not an issue. ..."

      "...need to decide about the DW before we start the flooring installation..."

      "...I'm not sure that we would net that much more on the selling price, but I'm hoping that the house will sell quicker."

      Assuming this would not be a "tear down" (and it sounds like it would not be)...

      If you're redoing the flooring and it will be decent flooring that someone would not necessarily want to tear out and redo, then I would definitely make the space for the DW now.

      No space for a DW would either be a deal-breaker for me or I would low-ball my offer b/c I would know I would have to do some major work to add a DW.

      However, if you sell it as a "fixer upper" and price it accordingly, you may not have to add the DW b/c people buying fixer uppers know they will have to do a lot of work anyway.

      No millennial I know (my kids at 22 & 24 are tail-end millennials or the next generation) would want a home without a DW. Face it, the vast majority of them grew up with a DW and see them as basic appliances (like a refrigerator or range) and would expect one in even the lowest end home.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Buehl
    • bbtrix
      5 years ago

      Agree! You are already doing quite a bit of work and adding the set up for the dishwasher would be a great advantage. I have rentals and do a bit of buying and selling and I think you will reach more market with the dishwasher connection set up.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked bbtrix
    • ncrealestateguy
      5 years ago

      Really, only a local real estate expert can advise this person as to which decision would be best for them. RE, as we all know, is very local.


      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked ncrealestateguy
    • mama goose_gw zn6OH
      Original Author
      5 years ago
      last modified: 5 years ago

      I had to make a decision by yesterday, to order the new countertop in time, and ... I folded.

      It's not just my money being spent (I have four siblings), so I deferred to their wishes. None of them wants to volunteer to help with the construction--or any aspect of getting the house ready for sale--so I let it go. The deciding factor was my BIL, who was always willing when I needed help with my own kitchen remodel. He's just not willing to put in the work on this house.

      I have to admit that I'm surprised that no one else in my family thinks a DW will be worth the extra expense involved, as they have all added DWs to their own kitchens. As I mentioned, if a buyer notices the lack of a DW, I'll have the realtor point out how easy it would be to add one.

      Over the week-end I cleaned and polished the cabinets, and they look really nice--even the flooring guy noticed the difference. I've cleaned the house thoroughly, thinking that if buyers see spotless light fixtures, windows, and storm windows, they'll assume the house has always been kept clean (it wasn't--I don't think the windows were cleaned since it had been a rental).

      Thank you all for responding with your honest opinions. Lest you think that my family is taking advantage of me--when the house sells I will be paid for my time and effort, before the proceeds of the sale are split. And I will always think I was right. ;)

    • palimpsest
      5 years ago

      I have been looking at a lot of real estate (not for myself) because my SO is a Realtor and I know some of the clients looking and I go along.

      One neighborhood is undergoing gentrification and I think some of the rehabs are being done by people who grew up in these neighborhoods and there are pockets of houses that do not have dishwashers. (Because the people who are rehabbing them never had one, perhaps)

      I have never been with someone who looked at a rehabbed house who noticed whether or not there were enough drawers. (And some of them don't have enough, maybe one or two). Everyone notices if there is no dishwasher.

      A couple of the people lost interest in the house completely because it had no dishwasher. They barely looked at the rest. Even when it was pointed out that for the difference in price in some of these houses it would be easy enough to rework the kitchen, no going. The house was off the list. No one wants to redo a brand new kitchen, at least no one I know. The people who at least thought about the houses with no DW still went with a house that had one.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked palimpsest
    • chocolatebunny123
      5 years ago

      Mamagoose, you mentioned this house is in a low-mid income area. What is the demographic - are there young families buying their first home, or retirees?

      If the former, then they're going to want a dishwasher. I have 2 kids a year apart and I vividly remember the days of having 2 under 2. I would have passed over a house without a dishwasher, and would have never noticed no drawers for storage. My kids are teenagers now are there's days where I run the dishwasher twice. I'm also guessing this area does not have a lot of "flips" so your potential buyers may not have the money to renovate to their desires.

      If your demographic is retirees, you could get away without adding one I believe. My mom has a dishwasher and runs it maybe every 3 days. She's used to doing dishes so if they're just using a few, she'll wash them and put them away immediately.

      I understand not wanting to put a lot more money into this house to sell (I saw what my aunts had to go through for my grandmother's house) but the dishwasher is definitely something I would prioritize.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked chocolatebunny123
    • Chessie
      5 years ago

      Put in the dishwasher.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked Chessie
    • schnoodlemom
      5 years ago

      I also vote dishwasher. Is there room for a free standing island? Storage and drawers could be in there.


      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked schnoodlemom
    • mama goose_gw zn6OH
      Original Author
      5 years ago

      Update:

      I finally finished the house, sans DW, on the week-end after Thanksgiving, and my realtor/friend put a sign in the yard the following Monday, November 26. This morning I accepted an offer for $3500 less than the original listing price, which of course, was set high enough to leave room to negotiate.

      We actually had another offer before I finished the house--I was painting the bathroom one evening when my friend stopped by with a different young couple. They happened to be in the neighborhood, viewing another house, and he asked if I'd mind if he showed them around. I said, "Come on in--just don't touch the paint in the bathroom." They submitted an offer the next day, which included finishing the baseboard trim themselves--I had joked with them about not looking forward to getting down on my knees to install quarter round. But the offer was at the low end of my range, and since the house had not yet been listed, I wanted to see if we could do better.

      I think the buyers are a young couple (FHA loan, 96.5% financed), so we are paying closing costs, which were added to their first offer, and the sale is contingent on an inspection.

      I was happy to do this for my siblings, and I'm thrilled with the sale price, but I don't want to go into the flipping business--I've spent way too much time on this house. And even though it didn't keep us from finding buyers, I really wanted that dishwasher!

    • wilson853
      5 years ago

      Very interesting that you didn't need the DW after all! Congrats on getting it sold so quickly at a price that you are happy with, especially during the holiday season.

      mama goose_gw zn6OH thanked wilson853
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