Big Fat Problems with Brand New Kitchen

9 years ago

We are at our wit's end. We need input and ideas! MAJOR problems with our brand new kitchen. The range requires 6" clearance on each side. There is only 2" on one side and 2 1/2" on the other. Oh, yes, that's yet ANOTHER problem---the hood is off-center and it shows. What a mess. We have no idea how to fix this and neither does the cabinet company. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! What needs to happen here so I can use my new custom-built kitchen??

Featured Answer

PRO

Suess Electronics

9 years ago

One solution may be to replace the arched column hood supports with ones that are mounted higher on the wall, as in the attached photo.

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Comments (75)

Ann
9 years ago
I don't love that hood either so maybe just replacing it is the best way to go. I agree with mcbriec, otherwise the kitchen is just great.
problemsinthekitchen thanked Ann
Kivi
9 years ago
So you had this range before...didn't you have to deal with the required clearances last time? It seems pretty odd that an experienced kitchen designer would put those corbels so close to the range surface.
problemsinthekitchen thanked Kivi
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problemsinthekitchen
Original Author
9 years ago
Kivi, IKR. I don't know what happened other than a careless mistake. I'm not looking to bash anybody, just want to figure out a way to fix it.
I didn't have combustibles there in my previous kitchen, had a stone surround last time. Y'all, it looks good and in proportion when you see the whole room (IMHO). Couldn't be any bigger, though, that's for sure.
Fred, I'll def check now...
Kivi
9 years ago
It's a good looking kitchen. I would not worry about the 1/2 inch difference in being off centre. It seems to me the real issue is to just get the hood cabinet rebuilt without using the corbels. I'm sure your cabinet folks/ kitchen designer should be able to come up with a new design for it.
problemsinthekitchen thanked Kivi
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
9 years ago
Your choices are fairly simple. You have two choices - have the current hood remade to meet requirements (remove corbels, meet upper clearances - Fred is right that it is probably 40") or replace with a new hood that meets requirements (some of the cast examples that have been posted are nice). While you are at it, in looking at the photo again, it appears you have light rails on the bottom of your wall cabinets on either side of the hood and the space from the bottom of the light rail to the top of the countertop does not appear to be the full 18" that is required. This should be measured and, if not a minimum of 18", then this should be corrected at the same time. The 1/2" off center is not noticeable and is not a major issue - once the hood is corrected it would never be known.

Beautiful kitchen. It's a shame.
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PRO
Gail Patton Designs, Inc.
9 years ago
Don't mean to make you feel bad, but.... the cabinet maker should have known all of this before he started making the cabinets. If the cabinet maker was the general then he is totally responsible for this problem. The others are totally correct about the height and width of the hood. It may look "pretty" to have the corbels but, it is not functional if you plan on really using the range and cooking. Working with A Certified Kitchen Designer would have eliminated these problems.
Gail Patton, CKD, CAPS
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Gail Patton Designs, Inc.
9 years ago
In looking at the photo closely it doesn't look like the cabinets are 18" high. Which Deborah pointed out. There is no law that requires cabinets to be 18" from the counter. Many parts of the country have 16", 15" inches between. It is nice having the 18" for use with countertop appliances like mixers, food processors, and coffee pots though. Gail Patton.
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Kathryn Elise Brown
9 years ago
It looks as if it is off by no more than an 1". That is noticeable since the corbels go all the way down to the counter but don't see that as a major problem. Should it be exactly centered...Yes, but that is going to require some work to fix and not sure how much you want to start ripping out. Base cabinets are pretty set so would mean adjusting the uppers right and left of the hood.

As far as clearances at the range I would tell your GC that you want a meeting with GC, KD, and building inspector to see how to proceed. Your building inspector will be able to tell you what will pass code. Contact your appliance supplier to get the most current specs on the range and the hood vent as well. That way you can have those onsite for the inspector, that is what he goes off of. This information should be in the appliances owners manual as well. With this meeting of all parties involved hopefully a solution can be made that will fix this while still keeping the look and feel that you were going for. I can tell you that the 29" at lowest part of your arch will not pass code. Gas ranges have a clearance to anything combustible of at least 30" some going as high as 48". With the window above a new hood supplied by cabinet manufacturer at no cost to you would be the right thing to do.

On a kitchen of this size and detail those should have been checked by your KD. Even if you did not supply them they should have asked. Especially if the same company that supplied you with the cabinets installed them.

Be careful before placing the blame, there are several people involved. Some cabinet companies are just supply only and take no responsibility for design, measurements, or appliances. I would start with whomever designed the space, whether that is your contractor, designer, or cabinet supplier. Between those someone should have caught this.
problemsinthekitchen thanked Kathryn Elise Brown
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
9 years ago
Gail some clarification here. Building codes (IRC) require that you follow the specifications of the manufacturer and those written specifications are supposed to be on site when the inspection occurs for the inspector to read. That is standard in the code. States can adopt regulations that are more strict than the IRC if they wish, but cannot be less strict so as to dilute the requirements of the IRC - so this requirement applies everywhere in the U.S. as a minimum. Other countries probably are different. While no one can be familiar with every single gas appliance, the manufacturers of gas ranges and/or gas range tops almost all require at least 18" between the finished countertop and the lowest part of the underside of the cabinets (or light rail if attached to a cabinet) on either side of a gas appliance. So if the manufacturer requires it for the appliance being used, then by default it is required by building codes. This is why it is so important that all appliances be known in advance so that cabinet design is appropriate. Electric and induction appliances may have completely different requirements which would allow for a lesser distance. Inspectors are failing this more and more frequently.
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Kathryn Elise Brown
9 years ago
Deborah if the range is calling for 6" clearance like original post states the lightrail would be clear. Those corbels plus the amount they are away from the range seems to be more than 6". Combustible materials can go all the way down to the counter as long as they are away the stated amount. I had a knock down drag out fight with an inspector over this same issue. The range called to be 9" away and I went 12" to be safe. He said that the light rail stuck down into the 18" and did not follow the code of the range. I fought it and was right because all combustible materials were outside of the recommended area. Appliance manufacturers do not make this easy. Their specifications are vague and leave lots up to interpretation.
problemsinthekitchen thanked Kathryn Elise Brown
User
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Just to clarify. From the original post. "The range requires 6" clearance on each side."
This (6" in this case) is the area in which the upper cabinets and light rails etc. must be 18" above the counter AND protrude from the wall no more than 13" by code. There is no requirements for the remainder of the cabinets outside of this zone, UNLESS you want the bottom of the cabinets to all be the same height.
Kathryn posted the same thing while I wasn't looking.
I'm sure that Deborah knows this and it just came out wrong.
problemsinthekitchen thanked User
PRO
Gail Patton Designs, Inc.
9 years ago
I would like to clarify my comment from earlier. When I was discussing 18" I was referring to the height of the cabinetry from bottom of wall cabinet to countertop, not any thing dealing with the range. I do use building codes Deborah, have been for 42 years. I won't order or do a finished design without exact specs of appliances. I also supply those to the general contractor, electrician and plumber to make sure we are all using the same specs. I also provide detailed elevations to all of the above so that we are in agreement with every detail. I think that should be customary around the country for professionals.
We go over every detail at a meeting, so that all is accounted for and dealt with at the first day on the job.
I would have thought the this job would have required a detailed set of elevations before cabinetry was ordered. The problems would have been noticeable in those.
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PRO
Gail Patton Designs, Inc.
9 years ago
Hopefully the persons involved with this kitchen issue can come to some safe and agreeable arrangement with all concerned even the inspector. Just had a conversation with my appliance professional. It seems the clients builder put two Subzero Refrigerators at right angles at a corner with a French Door Patio door next to the one refrigerator and now the client can't leave her French door open without obstructing the use of the refrigerator. It happens all the time I guess and everywhere and everyone has had problems. Unfortunately we learn from our mistakes.
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problemsinthekitchen
Original Author
9 years ago
I can't express how invaluable ALL of your input has been with this. I was about to bang my head on the wall before I posted for help. Thank you. We are going to work towards finding some sort of solution. I don't know what it is yet, but I feel HOPEFUL again (and that's huge.) I'll keep you posted. Any additional comments or advice are greatly appreciated. :)
PRO
Gail Patton Designs, Inc.
9 years ago
Real soon you will be enjoying your kitchen and you will forget all of the negative. Just enjoy and cook up a storm. Your family will love it.!
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PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
9 years ago
My apologies for an error. I thought the extended corbels looked to be about 5" wide with the decorative piece on the front of them at about 3" and it looked like an inch on either side of those. I was thinking that would put the cabinets to each side within the 6" zone. I went back and read the original post and the inside edge of the extended corbel is a minimum of 2" off the range so whether they are 5" or 6" wide it wouldn't matter. The cabinets would be 7" or more off the range. Sorry to create confusion.
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User
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
But, that is why I see so many bad designs on here. The restrictions can be a bit vague and confusing.
Unless the entire corbel is outside the 6" zone, it can't stick out more than 13" from the wall, any more than any other cabinet unless it is made from noncombustible materials.
I bring this up again because this picture was posted as an example of how to fix the problem. It would NOT meet code if the corbels are combustible and in the 6" zone.
mcbriec
9 years ago
Thank you professionals for educating the rest of us.

Also, the hood posted by Fred is gorgeous because it slopes backwards and narrows as it heads towards the ceiling, giving it a very elegant look, with the corbels no lower than the upper cabinets.
problemsinthekitchen thanked mcbriec
PRO
Westbrook Carpentry & Millwork
9 years ago
Why not cut off the knee braces? Remember cabinets are boxes, meaning they have their own shear strength. Depending on how the cabinets are built and secured to the wall you may be able to devise a way to secure the hood cover cabinet without any knee brace support. I'd cut them off right below the bullnose bead at the bottom of the arch exposing the bulkhead ends of both upper cabinets. This will solve several problems. One is the combustible clearance. Another is eliminating the visual offset from center as there will will be no close reference point for the eye to pick up. Another is it appears that the braces could be in the way for serious cooks with pots and utensils, cleaning etc. With most kitchens I've done the cooks always want space around their cook top. Another consideration is how far out horizontally the braces jet out in space… a head knocker when bending over, and moving around the stove? This fix requires precision in place cuts, sanding, priming and paint, after verifying and securing the structural integrity of hood cover unit. Hire a surgical carpenter and pay them what their worth. You'll then need to fix the back splash and repaint. Does this help?
PRO
sstarr93
9 years ago
This kitchen would be much more attractive if this heavy hood were eliminated entirely, and replaced with a freestanding unit.
The upper cabinets also look as if they have been installed too low, to give clearance to the window, which adds to the heavy, squatty feel of this kitchen.
problemsinthekitchen thanked sstarr93
Brandi Nash Hicks
9 years ago
Well it is apparent SSTAR that this kitchen has just been just remodeled and they are trying to find a solution...not a new problem to deal with. I think it is beautiful and with a little tweeking will be their dream kitchen
problemsinthekitchen thanked Brandi Nash Hicks
weatherwife
9 years ago
I think once you remove the corbels and replace them with ones that do not touch the counter top, (which will fix the clearance issue) you will not be able to tell at all that the hood is slightly off center. The corbels are what is making it obvious to you because they are situated directly beside the range and make the space on either side of them obvious. I think your kitchen is beautiful. I'm so sorry that you are not enjoying it yet. Hang in there.,, this problem will be remedied!
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problemsinthekitchen
Original Author
9 years ago
so....we're going to do some cast stone corbels to replace the wooden ones. this would leave the hood itself (which we love). QUESTION OF THE DAY is this: what do you think would look good for the corbels? I know several of you didn't like the current look--thought it looked out of proportion. I like Fred's photo, but would prefer corbels that are not turned sideways. And, since we're going with cast stone, we don't have to stay so far up. However, we can't take the corbels all the way to the counter-top because it accentuates the off-center problem, which I think I'm going not try to correct (sounds like hell to rip out the back wall of cabinets and start all over on that. I'm sooooooo done on this project.) (oh, there IS 18" between the bottom of the cabs and the countertop. must be the photo that makes it look squatty.) thanks for the input, Y'all!
Kivi
9 years ago
I not troubled at all by the size of your hood, and sounds like you have a working solution with the stone corbels. I doubt you are even going to notice the off centre issue once you move the corbels away from the countertop. Post picks when your done. Obviously you're frustrated but it is a great looking kitchen!
problemsinthekitchen thanked Kivi
PRO
ProSource Memphis
9 years ago
Cast stone has a resin component and may not be the solution to the issue if the inspector wants to view the spec sheet on the product. It's not inflammable. I would redesign the hood to work without any corbel elements in the danger zone. More of a mantle look. And if you want corbels, they can be under a supporting shelf, like we did on our Kemper display. Everything directly above the hot zone is covered by the metal insert.

Kemper Showroom Vignette · More Info
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Kivi
9 years ago
Cast stone is a different product from stone resin. Since they mentioned cast stone I presume they are not planning on using the resin based product.
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problemsinthekitchen
Original Author
9 years ago
so, they were able to take down the corbels today without taking down the whole hood....WHAT DO YOU THINK I SHOULD DO? do I add corbels back? or what do you think about the way it looks now. what does it need? I would LOVE some input. (ps excuse the mess but this is my messy life right now with a kitchen addition)
problemsinthekitchen
Original Author
9 years ago
sorry about the duplicate photo...
inpdx
9 years ago
Unless a structural issue forces you to have corbels, leave it be. The room looks much more tailored without them.
problemsinthekitchen thanked inpdx
Kivi
9 years ago
I don't think your kitchen suffers at all without the corbels. I like it without them. Had you planned on doing any kind of backsplash tile or other on that end wall? That might be nice now with the corbels gone, to give the whole space the final touch.
problemsinthekitchen thanked Kivi
qofmiwok
9 years ago
I personally did not like the corbels. I thought they wee too large and would make someone feel like they were cooking in a hole. How about a contrasting backsplash behind the stove if you want it to stand out?
problemsinthekitchen thanked qofmiwok
asquithoatley
9 years ago
Looks much better without the corbels - they were far too heavy looking.
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mcbriec
9 years ago
I also think it looks fine without the corbels. I'd leave it be for now and change it later if you really feel the need for them. I agree that a backsplash tile would be a nice finishing touch.
problemsinthekitchen thanked mcbriec
Stacey
9 years ago
Your kitchen is very beautiful. A nice diagonal tile with a mural above stove would add the finishing touch. There are examples on Houzz under photos.
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melwishes
9 years ago
I think your kitchen looks better without them but unfortunately the hood looks a bit unfinished, as thought it's missing something (maybe because I've seen the pics with them).
It's a beautiful kitchen.
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nicolediane
9 years ago
I like the kitchen without the corbels, but I do think it needs something more.
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PRO
Mint Design
9 years ago
Add the corbels back...just make certain all fronts are whit...no wood colors as in the first photo...that is what is throwing the eye off more than anything else. Enjoy your lovely kitchen and don't mention to anyone what bothers you as they will never notice it and neither will you once you start enjoying it. :)
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rocketjcat
9 years ago
In my opinion it looks so much better without the corbels, it just needs the backsplash.
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pickyvicky
9 years ago
Leave them off. Looks less closed in. I like it better.
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hatetoshop
9 years ago
Perhaps this problem was a blessing in disguise -- I think it looks far better without the corbels. Enjoy your new kitchen!
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Angel 18432
9 years ago
Looks so much better without. When you get the backsplash on it will totally rock.
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feeny
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I think it looks much better without the heavy corbels.
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In Detail Interiors
9 years ago
So the issue with the clearance was because of the corbels being too close to the open flame? If so then leave corbels off and get on with cooking! Looks fine:)
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PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
9 years ago
Looks much better without the corbels. Have you been able to determine if the remainder of the hood meets required vertical clearances for your range? If so, then I would leave it alone.
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Flo Mac
9 years ago
I vote without. Pretty kitchen.
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problemsinthekitchen
Original Author
9 years ago
Deborah, the specs say "approximately 30 inches." So I think the "approximately" saves me at the lowest point of the arch. thank goodness.
problemsinthekitchen
Original Author
9 years ago
yes, In Detail, corbels were too close. specs call for 6"; they were less than 3".
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
9 years ago
Wow what luck! Hope you enjoy it - it is a beautiful space.
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feeny
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I really do think this is a blessing in disguise. The corbels were much too massive and clumsy for the delicacy of your lovely cabinets. It now looks even more beautiful.
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problemsinthekitchen
Original Author
9 years ago
haven't even thought about the backsplash yet.....loving your input, so if you have any ideas on that, let me hear 'em. I need to take some photos of the rest of the kitchen. you won't believe my sink---it is an original (never been refinished) 1935 Kohler from a NY restaurant. a killer sink. :)