Design-builder v. purchase home plans

3 years ago

We're looking to build a home on our lot in Huntersville, NC. For the design, we are trying to decide between one of several local design-build firms or instead buying and customizing a plan from Don Gardner architects and then getting bids from multiple builders. Anyone have suggestions?

Featured Answer

anonforthis

3 years ago

As with any profession there is a wide range of ability in those that practice that profession. Because someone graduated from architectural school doesn't mean that they come out at the other end as a great, or even good, architect. We have seen plenty of really bad plans here that were designed by actual architects.

We worked with one that would be a great person to have a beer with, but turned out not to be so great to design our house. Had a bias against us building a large house. Did not listen to our repeated requests to do, and show us, intermediate design steps, before spending hours/days doing a complete redesign that affected the whole floorplan, and then blamed us when we didn't like the results. After a few weeks he threw his hands up in the air, blamed us and walked away, keeping the money we had paid without delivering the agreed upon product.

We wrote it off as wasted time, money and a lesson learned, and then interviewed a couple of local architects. Found one that we enjoyed working with in person, designed a plan we are happy with, and it was a positive experience for all parties involved.

As with most things in life, the solutions aren't always black or white, there is a lot of gray area in between.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (62)

WestCoast Hopeful
3 years ago
Generally having someone design a plan for your specific lot should yield the best house for you. There are hiccups and variables but a stock plan won’t factor in your slope, directions etc.

We chose our builder first. We wanted someone budget conscious, respected, communicative and good at their job. We then asked him for architect and designer suggestions. We went off of his list and called around and narrowed down. We did this because these were people he worked successfully with in the past so it helped us believe we could have a team approach.

We ended up with a designer not architect. But we live in Canada not the US and there are difference to courses and options to meet that role here. Regardless we are happy all around despite some hiccups with budget that were design based. All were interior design issues though.

In terms of our build budget the builder came to all our design meetings and actively participated in a lot of it so he could help guide us to make cost conscious choices. He saved us on many fronts from pricey design decisions.
PRO
Charles Ross Homes
3 years ago
@AS,

Kudos to you for involving your builder early in the design process. A custom home design needs to balance a number of constraints. Getting the builder's input with respect to cost early in the process is much better than later if you have a budget and most folks do.
Related Discussions
Help with an open plan kitchen, dining and living area...
Q
Comments (19)
Hi, Could you add a pic of the lounge area outside bedrooms? There seem to be too many palettes of colours within furniture from white tv cabinet to dark brown book shelf to light brown dining to black/blue/beige sitting pieces. Tie up sitting by adding few cushions in possibly black/white/blue combo. Extend sitting area of living through the entire span of AC wall. You need a larger rug for this space. Angle dining table between 30 to 45 degrees with long length between detached counter corner to bookshelf end towards lounge. This will add the flow to lounge. Add a table runner along the centre of the long length. You need larger artwork pics or a collection of art pieces on living room wall behind beige sofa. Lounge can have a console and wall with a composition of family picture frames to personalise space. Remove blue artwork in the last pic. Instead, you can add a composition of wall shelves with artefacts on them or wall hooks with hanging artefacts. Rugs, table lamps, floor lamps and few bold decorative pieces will add the required warmth. A round centre table in the living room can be good.
...See More
Singaporean Houzzer? Say Hi!
Q
Comments (91)
Hi Everyone! We are a creative, caring, energetic team of individuals who take pride in striving to be the best we can be for ourselves, our suppliers and our customers. We are excited by giving our customers the tools to create homes that are not only good to look at, but are fun, comfortable and functional to live in too. We aim to spark the imagination, so that our collections will give their owners a sense of putting their own unique stamp on their environment. Twenty years of travelling the world, searching for the unique has given us the inspiration and resources to create our own ‘Originals’ blend of furniture for the home. Shop at our online store : www.originals.com.sg or drop by our showroom at 896 Dunearn Road, Sime Darby Centre #02-03, Singapore 589472 Tel: +65 6471 9918 | Email: Shop@originals.com.sg Cheers, Originals
...See More
How to maximise space in a small apartment?
Q
Comments (6)
I'm not a pro (and I hope a real designer answers your question), but here's how my family does it in Singapore: 1. Get rid of things. Don't fall prey to sunk cost fallacies. Just because you bought a piece of furniture or a bunch of clothing or books or toys or whatever, doesn't mean you need to keep them if they are no longer working for you. You can sell stuff on Carousell or donate them to needy people. Sometimes not having those things will provide more value, by freeing up space, than the false belief that you need to keep things around because you paid for them. 2. Everything should be multi-function. Especially here in Singapore, everything should have multiple uses. Your bed can lift up to provide storage. Your book shelf can also be your entertainment stand. Your coffee table can double as a breakfast nook or homework table. No tool in your kitchen should be a one-job tool (for example, if you have a blender, a food processor, a spice grinder, an immersion blender, a coffee grinder and a mortar and pestle - maybe it's time to clean out the kitchen cabinets). 3. Rotate toys We have a baby at home and try really hard not to accumulate too many toys. To do that we have two toy bins. Every two weeks we switch the bin that's in rotation, so every two weeks our baby gets "new" toys that he hasn't seen for a few weeks. That allows us to keep the total number of toys to a minimum and he seems to be pretty happy (and hasn't caught on to this trick yet). Hope that helps some. Google around for "small apartment" blogs and ideas - there is a ton out there. Andrew
...See More
Should we break our corridor wall or extend our kitchen?
Q
Comments (10)
Hi Mr Razis, your partner's layout of sofa seems more reasonable, afterall you want to face the TV when watching it :) I also like the idea of removing the balcony as it somehow gain more living space, and regularise the Living Room without a cut-off corner. This corner could be converted for mini hobby area with 2 small simple polypropylene chairs & a coffee table. Do not be put off by the column, I think it outweighs it's benefits. On your extended Kitchen, you could add in a L-shape custom-made bench seating as a breakfast or simple dining area. With chandelier/pendant as the final touch, I am sure this would become the 'heartland' during family gathering. Enjoy your renovation. Looking forward to have an update of the progress. :)
...See More
WestCoast Hopeful
3 years ago
It was still far from perfect but I do feel very lucky that we did that one thing of getting everyone on page at the start. It saved us many times over in not getting overly excited about a design idea we couldn’t afford.
PRO
Charles Ross Homes
3 years ago
I don't think there's a "perfect" process. I do believe that getting a builder's input with regard to cost early in the design process produces better outcomes than a design-bid-build approach where you don't get the punchline until after you've spent money on a fully-detailed set of construction plans.

In my experience, with design-bid-build, it's too often the case that the client pays the architect for a set of plans that never gets built.
User
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
If you buy a house design you won't be abe to build from the drawings without considerable modification. That means you must buy the CAD version and hire a skilled person to make the modifications. If a builder does it you will never know the true cost. It's rare that anything really good costs what you wished it would. IMO for what architects do they're relatively inexpensive.

The hardest part of building a house is having sufficient imagination and foresight regarding how you live and how a house can help you live better. If you don't have that skill you need to buy it and its not available from an internet plan service.

Design build can work if you choose a good one like some here on the forum but there are plenty of bad design builders as well as bad architects.
cpartist
3 years ago
And many builders who say they have an architect on staff don’t. They actually work with a glorified draftsman but loosely use the term archtect
cpartist
3 years ago
Additionally even if there is a true architect working for the builder, who do you think the architect is going to work with to make the builders life easier?
PRO
Charles Ross Homes
3 years ago
Many of the major plan services (e.g. Donald Gardner, Frank Betz, Stephen Fuller, MItch Ginn, Looney, Ricks, Kiss, Don Evans, etc.) are lead by credentialed architects. Some of whom are hired to design model homes for larger-scale builders. The builder's objective is to produce a plan which will sell in their particular market. Making sure it has curb appeal and is buildable at a particular price point is part of achieving that objective.
WestCoast Hopeful
3 years ago
CP that is not at all what I was referring to. We found a builder we wanted to work with and then asked for his advice on people he has worked with in the past.

Two distinct contracts. Relationships matter.
beckysharp Reinstate SW Unconditionally
3 years ago
For us -- and my husband is a builder -- the money and time spent on a truly custom plan that meets all of our needs was money very well-spent.

Especially now that we're spending even more time at home than usual (we farm and have our own home-based construction company, but used to visit with family, friends and neighbours frequently), we're especially thankful that we opted for a house that meets our family's specifications, rather than having our family adapt to a cookie cutter plan.
cpartist
3 years ago
AS I wasn’t talking about you. The OP aske if they should get a plan off the internet or go with a design/build firm.

My builder was supposedly a design/build firm with an architect. Turned out his “architect” was a very poorly trained CAD draftsman. My house turned out as well as it did because I do have a design background, can visualize in 3D and listened to the architects on this forum to help me get all the details right
Denita
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I see what cpartist describes above (builder with a poorly trained CAD operator) all the time in my market. The builders here do what I think of as "keyword" building. IOW they are strictly building to market the property using the keywords that attract buyers - and the actual house itself has no design features IMO. For example: kitchen has to have an island so it can be advertised that way. The builder doesn't take into account the location or size of the island or the fact that it is crammed into a space that can't handle it. Or that it creates an undesirable living area on the other side of it. Another example: 3 car garage. The fact that it is actually too small and located at the front of the house (snout house design) so that the entire front of the house is nothing but garage doesn't bother the builder and most consumers don't understand its impact until they try to actually use the garage for vehicles and discover that even 2 vehicles have a tough time fitting inside - no way 3 will fit.

Those are two examples of many.

Avoid getting the short stick because you didn't know better (why would you unless it's your area of expertise) and the CAD operator/designer didn't know better either. Find someone that does know better so you end up with a better home for you. After all, you are taking the time and money and effort to build custom. Let your custom home reflect you and your style, needs and preferences.
worthy
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
When I hear of all those dedicated tract builders with "architects" on staff, I think of their "creations", such as these recent re-sales in our community:

Sold C$902K

Sold C$730K
PRO
Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
3 years ago
Whatever path you choose, be a good listener, get prequalified with a lender, disclose your cost targets.

Design build is a great approach and often the most effective way to get a home designed into a predetermined budget. That designer may work directly for the builder and may be a licensed architect or may be independent.

Plan book plans are OK for saving some conceptual design costs and helping clients understand what fits, but many are tired old designs plus they still need local code updates, structural engineering & energy calcs. Like a kit house, it's only a piece, usually a smaller piece than you expect.

If you go the independent route, develop that builder relationship by getting a set of parameters that fits in your budget and often the architects initial design will get much closer.

We spend a lot of time explaining to clients why their 3000 sf hillside project with tiled decks, linear fireplaces and 12' ceilings cost more than the spec home built on a flat lot.
WestCoast Hopeful
3 years ago
Agreed Jeffrey design/build exists outside of tract home can be a great option. Of course you still need to research and confirm what you are getting and what the qualifications on the people are
beckysharp Reinstate SW Unconditionally
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Forgot to mention -- going custom also enabled us to design the house to our particular site, which allowed us to make good use of passive solar principles, to help make the house more comfortable as a matter of course, and to save energy costs year-round.

And one of our goals for our house was to bring the outside in, which has been glorious no matter what the weather.
beckysharp Reinstate SW Unconditionally
3 years ago
I just posted these in another thread and thought it might be helpful here as well.

One of the long-time posters in this forum, Virgil Carter, is an architect who wrote these threads the other year.

Virgil's Threads on Buying Land, Designing and Building A Custom Home:

Tips for Buying Land, Designing and Building A Custom Home, Part 1 of 3

Tips for Buying Land Designing & Building Custom Home Part 1 (Continued)

Tips for Buying Land, Designing and Building A Custom Home, Part 2

Tips for Buying Land, Designing and Building A Custom Home, Part 2 Continued

Tips for Buying Land, Designing and Building A Custom Home, Part 3

Also, cpartist's thread,

What are you doing to make your house enrich your life?
roccouple
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
When you say , “your lot” is this an empty lot? Or is there a house already there that you are replacing? how familiar are you with the lot? My first step would be pitching a tent and staying a few days (only sort of joking)

we knocked down an existing 900 sf house where we’d lived for years. build a 1900 sq ft on its foundation with the help of a local architect. Would never do it another way. Our house was done in December. Couldn’t be happier. But we knew that lot and worked with the architect to optimize for our land, views (and some neighboring eye sores) We has to be an active part of that process and knowing the land really helped

i think that having the right relationship betwen lot and house is so important. Our build was not hugely expensive (300s k range) But I think feels very much more high end due to thoughtful choices there.

I have seen on this forum that people usually don’t advise on building on an existing foundation because of limitations. In case you are considering that, We did it and it saved us money , no regrets. we have mature trees and an established yard with a new house which is great for us.
PRO
Virgil Carter Fine Art
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
The subject of generic "plan factory" house plans comes up here repeatedly. Mostly from consumers who find these plans appealing because they a "cheap" fixed cost, and the consumer can see architecturally what they are getting at the outset (or so it may seem initially). There's no mystery.

Or is there?

For those who find plan factory designs both economical and a clear representation of what they will get, consider the following:

--As already stated above ^^^ these plans are generic; they give absolutely no consideration to a specific site, or the requirements of a given city or county jurisdiction. There is no consideration of views, direction and travel of the sun; natural light; direction(s) of adverse weather; terrain type and slope; drainage; necessary site access to/from the house; grading and drainage; site improvements; landscaping and the like. No soils evaluation or testing. Heaven help you if you need retaining walls, fencing and a well, septic system, or heat pump.

And there's more--lots more to understand. In the majority of generic plans there is little to no:

--Foundation design and specifications;

--If there's a basement, there's no structural or waterproofing information. You're on your own.

--No HVAC design or specifications. No register locations; no thermostat location; no specification of any special equipment like dehumidifiers. Try to find where the furnace or heat pump is located.

--No electrical design or specifications. No location of main and sub switch gear/panels; no electrical outlets; no lighting plan or schedule. No special equipment, alarm or signal information.

--No plumbing supply or waste design or schedules. No information about fixtures. Try to locate and identify the type of hot water heater.

--No structural framing design, calculations or specifications. Depending on the design, these are often required for building permit approval.

--In the kitchen, no appliance selection or schedule. No cabinet schedule. Many kitchens are poorly designed.

--In the interiors, no finish schedule--you're on you own.

--On the exterior, no window schedule, perhaps no exterior finish schedule, no roofing specification. Like the interiors, you're on your own.

If you want to adjust, change or modify the generic design there are extra expenses, as well as extra expenses for a sufficient number of plan sets for permitting, bidding and construction.

Speaking of permitting, plan factories do not produce any special drawings or documents which may be required by local city or county jurisdictions for design approval, site work approval, building permit and occupancy permit, if/where these are required.

In other words...the generic plans are minimal, and there is always additional expenses (and time) to prepare and submit all of the additional drawings, schedules and specifications required for actual permitting, bidding and construction.

Plan factory designs are simply a beginning. They are not the end of what's needed.

If you want to use a plan factory design, that's fine. Just do so knowledgably and with your eyes (and pocket book) wide open.
nclawyer
Original Author
3 years ago
Thank you Virgil for the thoughtful response. You seem very knowledgeable.

I appreciate the point that online plans will need further design for the plumbing, electrical, mechanical and other items before the home can be built. I guess I'm trying to balance the cost of the two approaches however. I could buy the plans online for about $5,000, incomplete though they may be. I know they are the right orientation for my lot and have a soil scientist engaged on the septic and well component so I know the footprint of the home will fit with what is necessary for a lot.

On the other hand, I had one architect tell me they could do a design for 10% of the construction budget ($800,000,) so that's $80,000. That is orders of magnitude beyond what I had contemplated spending for the home design-I just can't afford to do that and have enough money left to build the house I want to build (I have some specific requirements due to my family situation).

Am I naive to think that a competent builder and subcontractors for these systems could come up with a design for less than $75,000? I don't want to make a dumb decision here and I don't want to go cheap on the design only to regret it later. On the other hand, if it is true that I need to allocate 10% or more of my total budget to the design, then what I really need to do is sell my lot and buy something at resale because I'll never be able to. build the type of house I need within my budget.
WestCoast Hopeful
3 years ago
Even if 10% in common you won’t know what costs are in your area until you ask around with those you may want to work with.

I don’t know anyone who had paid 10% or more for their architectural drawings etc. I know we absolutely did not.
roccouple
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
For just drawings I think we paid 12k ish. Out of the 300ish. So more like 5%. That doesn’t include all engineering fees or permitting, etc.

an architects fees I think can cover a lot of things from full project management, permitting, engineering, planning and zoning meetings, etc. to “just plans”. So not clear what the 80k is for. We were more on the “just plans” side. I think 80k for just plans is probably ridiculous, especially since you aren’t looking for anything unusual if you are considering stock plans. Our house is a little on the unusual side (due to an unusual lot) for what that’s worth.

i would shop around in your area to get a better idea of rates if it were me. if you know your lot well you may be able to carefully select a stock plan. Even if you hire an architect I think you need to know your lot we’ll!

not sure I am reading your post right but it sounds like you are at the edge of what you can afford, if 10% extra means your build becomes impossible . i am sure you are aware but there are often surprises in the new builds and a 20% cushion is a good idea. I’ve only built one house and not a pro but our build went very well but process still had rough spots. Not saying you should throw away money on unnecessary things Or overpriced fees but if 10% in theory means you need to sell the lot I personally would reconsider or downsize The plans.

If you do decide to get an architect your towns planning or architecture review boards might be good places to observe some.
WestCoast Hopeful
3 years ago
It’s true of 10% increase means the project isn’t doable then the project is already not doable. Have a budget in mind but you also need to have contingency for the what if’s etc.
nclawyer
Original Author
3 years ago
my budget includes contingency for unanticipated construction costs, but not design costs 8x what an online plan would cost me.
nclawyer
Original Author
3 years ago
16x actually
BT
3 years ago
Just as an alternative ... There are plenty of sites to find freelance architects for as little as $40 with real US building experience, while I am sure some are very happy about spending 40k and architect even helped them save money on windows.... I have seen a shockingly good con docs for $100.
WestCoast Hopeful
3 years ago
I guess it’s all about what you want to get out of it and the type of house you hope for.
BT
3 years ago
.... And even with architect plans ... I would still run them thru the 3rd party review service, and find female or two ... their brains wired differently.. they can see staff I can not. Had a brain freeze trying countless combinations... Wife's friend did under 3 minutes with no formal arch or engineering education.
WestCoast Hopeful
3 years ago
The reality is many people use stock plans, many built tract homes, many use a designer not an architect, many design on own, many use an architect. How successful it is depends on much more than the plan.
just_janni
3 years ago
I think that if your screen name is your profession, you can see the difference between LegalZoom and hiring a local attorney to incorporate your business, buying legal docs online vs having a real estate attorney, or - downloading a will vs planning an estate with your attorney.

That's the difference between buying a set of plans online, vs having a custom home.

Can do both either way - just depends on what you want and how specific your wants and circumstances.
PRO
Charles Ross Homes
3 years ago
To the extent that a well-documented set of plans eliminates many "unknowns" it should reduce construction contingencies and the cash reserves set aside for them. That said, I think the amount of detailed plans required to build a home and the attendant design cost has been overstated.

I've never seen a set of plumbing plans included in an architect's set of plans for residential construction. If they are, you can be sure that design work was subcontracted to an engineer and that the cost was marked up by the architect. The prescriptive code, coupled with code compliance inspection is sufficient for plumbing. In our area, mechanical plans are typically produced by the mechanical contractor selected for the project. If they are included in the architect's scope, that design was surely subcontracted to an engineer and the cost marked up, too. Electrical plans are really diagrammatic. They can be produced simply by marking up a set of floor plans to show the locations of fixtures. The vast majority of receptacle locations are dictated by code. Window and door schedules are important, but producing them isn't brain surgery. They can be produced in collaboration with your builder based on the particular window manufacturer selected. We use engineered I-joists, headers, beams, and columns. Those are designed by a technician using the truss manufacturer's proprietary software. The cost of design is built into the material cost.

Two third parties you will likely need are a geotechnical engineer to design the footings based on soil tests and a structural engineer review the framing to ensure shear wall requirements are met.

The total cost of the above should be well below 10% of construction cost, even for a modest home.
cpartist
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Get in touch with architectrunnerguy here on these forums. He’ll create a beautiful, workable house working remotely with you and Im sure it won’t cost anything close to $80k
David Cary
3 years ago
$80k is not a normal number for most people. I used a draftsman who partners with an architect. He designs many homes in the $1M in my area. We paid about $6k. Someone else I heard of recently paid $7 a sqft for a licensed architect. I thiink that is a reasonable range for what you are talking about.

I personally think 3-5% is a more reasonable number than 10.

A good draftsman is always a consideration (partnered with an architect). Ours was an infill lot and had very specific orientation and design needs. No way, no home a stock plan.

A stock plan can put a window looking at a neighbor's trash bin. A stock plan can put large west windows that you will curse every June through September from 3p-7p. A stock plan does not know your lot size or setbacks. A stock plan does not know the slope of your land or where cars approach from. A stock plan does not know the heights of your neighbors. A stock plan does not realize that your climate and a short driveway is not a big consideration because you don't have snow. A stock plan does not realize that a front facing garage is not done in your area. A stock plan does not know your cities unusual and fairly strict architectural rules. A stock plan does not realize there is a 50 year old oak tree in the west corner of your lot. A stock plan does ....

I assume you are not on the lake or have views?

When you do your research, the whole concept of a stock plan seems ridiculous in most situations are particularly at your price point in your area. People do it all the time but they also eat at Applebees when there are far more interesting local independent restaurants at the same price point. The theoretical advantage at the chain restaurant is that you know what you are getting but boy you sacrifice a lot for that.
Architectrunnerguy
3 years ago
My experience mirrors Charles Ross Homes. For residential construction (not commercial) typically there's no plumbing riser diagrams, HVAC or electrical technical drawings as these are produced as part of the appropriate subcontractors work. Same thing for sprinkler drawings. Electrical switching drawings are sometimes provided but I've moved away from those as more often than not there's substantial changes once the house is framed up. Much easier (and cheaper because now we don't have an obselete drawing used only as a lunch napkin for the workers) for the owner, builder, architect and electrician to go around the house with an orange can of spray paint right prior to electrical rough in noting where stuff should be. Much is driven by code anyway. I do provide the CAD floorplan template for that stuff should a sub request it.

And same for floor framing, as CRH said, it's all engineered joists and beams now and the layout is designed and stamped by the manufacturers engineer. In the specs I just note maximum deflection criteria I want which, for a custom house, is often above code anyway. Other structural stuff like wind loading is different however.
PRO
Edward J. Shannon, Architect PLC
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
RE: Finding an Architect. Referrals are a good source. You can also search for pro's here on Houzz. You will likely get a broad range of design fees. Some Architects provide more of an ala carte service - but, because they are licensed need to provide the basics for construction and permitting. Remember, Architects are licensed professionals as you are as an attorney. In addition to an Architect being formally trained in design - which should yield a ncer design, Architects are also professionally liable for the plans. If you do not use an Architect, you, the homeowner are liable for the drawings conforming to code. The builder (who produces plans) is not liable, nor is a "drafting service" as they are unregulated. As you know from being an attorney, it costs money to get and maintain your professional license. As you also know, you get what you pay for! Good luck!
Denita
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
OP, the quote you got from the architect for 10% was it an actual quote or was it a range of what is customary in your area for that particular architect firm? That fee sounds like a "I don't have time to work on your plans so I am going to quote high type fee". As we all know, there are various types of pricing - at least one of which is designed to push you away.
One Devoted Dame
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
On the other hand, I had one architect tell me they could do a design for 10% of the construction budget ($800,000,) so that's $80,000.

I interviewed 3 licensed architects, and one told me that he designed for roughly what your architect quoted you (he worked on an hourly fee at first, then moved onto a percentage-of-build fee, but his % alone was 10%-15%, if I recall). Another guy said his fee was $2.50/sqft (+ $100/hr for construction site supervision; but he strongly disliked doing it), and my guy said 3%-5% for full services.

The architect who charged per square foot seemed cheaper if I was willing to forgo help during construction ($8k vs $25k, on a budget of $500k, in Central Texas), but I chose my guy because of his creativity, experience, and desire to supervise during construction. When I mentioned it, all 3 architects supported the idea of bringing a builder into the design process... My guy has a favorite builder he uses for most projects in a modified Design/Build arrangement, which I have no objection to (2 different contracts, and I can choose a different builder, if for some reason I don't like the guy).

All of that to say, talk to more folks. :-) I interviewed three, after filtering through websites and online portfolios, and three was sufficient.

Edited to add: I did as RES suggested, and did an internet search for "architect [my zip code]" and "architect [my metro area]". I filtered through *pages* of results, partly because I'm insane, and partly because my thought process was, "If I don't go all the way to, like, page 30 (or more) of search results, I could miss a great architect who didn't show up in the first 5 pages." I'm glad I did.
PRO
Mark Bischak, Architect
3 years ago
For $80,000.00, some architects will move to Huntersville, NC to accommodate you.

Shop around for an architect.

What do you think is a reasonable fee for the design and production of construction documents to guide the construction of your home the way you want it?
WestCoast Hopeful
3 years ago
We paid $40K for our exterior and interior drawings. This included all of the architectural drawings required for permit. It also included all the interior drawings for placement of literally everything. We have a flooring plan, electrical plan, and so on. This comprehensive package was the guide that the builder used to build our home. It was so well put together, in the end, that we didn't even need the designer to come on site to do builder support.

I will say that all of it is only as good as the person reading the plans though. For example, our electrical was clearly laid out but the electrician went off script and placed our master vanity lights where he wanted. When I brought it to his attention he was upset but it was going to be a huge fix as the mirror was custom and installed already. I will live with my slightly high lights because he installed all our nest products for free in exchange.
PRO
Edward J. Shannon, Architect PLC
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Another thing to keep in mind. Architects have areas of expertise, just like law practices. Most mid-sized and large firms concentrate on commercial and institutional buildings. A small project, like a house, will not be profitable for them. Nor do they likely have the expertise in single family residential. Make sure the architects you interview have this expertise. This may also explain why the quote you got was on the high side.
BT
3 years ago
I would not even trust architect with HVAC. There are three methods of designing ductwork. Even with WriteSoft or Rhvac you needs to know / understand a lot to even use it.

While I have seen construction plans with plumbing isometric risers diagrams... it is not common or required for IRC and the plumbers will not use it.
chicagoans
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Not a pro, but this line of yours: "I have some specific requirements due to my family situation" leads me to believe you'll have the best results with a design created specifically for you and your lot. Just looking at some Don Gardner plans that have been posted in the past, there are many things, some listed in posts above, that seem lacking. Please don't be in a hurry; do some research; continue posting here for feedback, and good luck!

(For reference, I spent $5k on a local architect just for a new front porch design, and was glad I did. He helped me find a builder and submit plans to my village for approval, including electrical plans for the outdoor outlets I got. My front porch isn't fancy but my architect helped me get one that is in scale and appropriate to my house, with a design I love.)

I hope you have at least an initial meeting with architectrunnerguy to understand his process.
just_janni
3 years ago
Agree that Architects shouldn't be spec'ing your HVAC - however, our Architect did ensure that we designed a near Passives Haus envelope, provided detailed drawings for the panel constructor which allowed us to do direct set windows and no "rough framing", ensured overhang depths for passive solar optimization, confirmed site location for geothermal wells, ensured we we had sufficient space for HVAC equipment and routing of ductwork, spec'd windows to ensure that we have the right SHGC and glass types for each elevation base on thermal load and a host of other things.

Finding then, the right HVAC contractor to actually USE all that info accurately within the Manual J and equipment sizing and calculations was a trick.

I think that a combination of the right experts should yield better than average outcomes - but no single trade or piece of the puzzle is a panacea for a good team. Often, Architects also know folks that can do things that are out of the ordinary or can execute specific details that may be more important to the homeowner than what's available in a more mainstream build.
WestCoast Hopeful
3 years ago
No one said architects should be designing HVAC did they? All of this takes a team who communicates and works well together. All of it.
SBDRH
3 years ago
As a point of reference, we modified a stock house plan for our lakehouse build that's currently underway. We paid $1195 for the standard set of plans and then an additional $1200 for modifications. We took the plans to our builder and he suggested a number of additional modifications, which cost $400 more. Total cost of plans $2795.

Our builder sent the plans to his engineer who did the foundation plan for footings along with the load calculations and other structural details, and stamped the plans. The fee for his services was $1000. That brings our total cost for a stamped set of plans to $3795. For reference, this is for a 4000 square foot two story home with full walkout basement being built for $600k.
sheepla
3 years ago
People do what SBDRH did all the time (just not so much on these forums). That's very helpful information. You can see on the stock plan websites that some of those plans have been successfully built dozens of times.
AnnKH
3 years ago
sheepla, the fact that a plan has been built many times does not in any way prove that it is the best plan for the site, or the family that lives there. It might prove that a builder is good at building that particular plan. Being easy to build is not at all the same as being easy to live in.
SBDRH
3 years ago
@AnnKH conversely the fact that the home originated from a stock plan doesn't prove that it's not suited for the site, or the family that lives there.

In our case we found a plan that is specifically designed for the type of site we have, and also meets the specific limitations on width that would fit on our site. Being able to refer to multiple different builds of the plan, and the modifications that each build made, allowed us to change the aspects of the plan to tailor it to our needs. Then our builder assisted in further refining the plans given his knowledge and experience. We found this to be a reasonably efficient way to arrive at a design that meets all our needs and can also be built affordably, for a total of less than 1% of the construction cost.
David Cary
3 years ago
SBDRH - A stock plan suited to the site would be a very lucky thing indeed.

I would argue that you haven't compared to a plan that was drawn based on your site and orientation so you don't know what you don't know.

I would also argue that I spent .2% more than you did for a custom plan.

A lake view (or any perfect unobstructed flat view) does lend itself to a stock plan better than most particularly if you are rectangular and the width matches up.

But does your plan take advantages of southern exposure and limit western sun intrusion into living areas? Does it have good lines of site to views from areas you want it to?

Your modified stock plan could be absolutely perfect. But it doesn't change the fact that stock plans put in things to wow first time home builders. That is what sells plans.

I have built 4 houses. The first one was tract with a modifiable stock plan (which i did some). Never again - but the house was mostly fine to live in for me and I sold it well a few years later.

It was fine but....

Design-builder v. purchase home plans

Comments (62)

Related Discussions

nclawyerOriginal Author

nclawyerOriginal Author

nclawyerOriginal Author

COMPANY

EXPLORE HOUZZ

CONNECT WITH US

nclawyer
Original Author

nclawyer
Original Author

nclawyer
Original Author